Sleep training

I've been told to do this as lil one doesn't sleep longer than 3hrs and hasn't done since birth. He's high demands and absolutely screams when he doesn't get what he wants. The thought of leaving him to cry makes me so unhappy. Even leaving him less than a minute he has cried so much before he's made himself sick. I just can't do it to him. It is really tempting to do it in order to have a good night's sleep but it just seems so unnatural and when he's upset I get upset too. I hear that this kind of sleep training is based on industrial era 'need' for babies to be independent as soon as possible so parents can get back to work. Loads of cultures are shocked and saddened if a westerner tells them they leave their baby alone all night to cry 😢 We're currently just working on getting him to learn to self sooth while we are next to him/cuddling him. He struggles but he can manage it eventually, hopefully he will learn gradually how to do it more and more.

@Jenny I'm sorry it's so difficult for you. Has baby dropped to 2 naps yet? I agree that the idea of leaving a baby/child to cry makes me feel ill. My daughter is 2 and I wouldn't do it now let alone when she was younger.

Not for me. I've not actively tried the cry out method but from a young age my LO would cry and cry and he does "not give up"... prefer softer methods x

@Jenny @Natalie @Haylee Thank you so much as I feel like my friends make me feel like a moron for not wanting to give it a go. Why do it to a little baby who is sooo innocent and needs you so desperately. They only need you until they’re a certain age and they grow up so fast. I just wanna keep my baby so close all day everyday . Appreciate the honesty I just can’t bring myself to do this for 5 mins of freedom. I have set a schedule for my baby where she sleeps at 7 and awake at 6:30-7 but cry out method isn’t for me. We do the traditional Huggies and gentle 5 min rocking because she’s exhausted from running behind me all day while I cook and clean 🤣 x

@Natalie yes he's having 2 naps now. He dropped one by himself, he has one about 10am now and the other about 2pm usually.

@Jenny how long are the naps, when is bedtime?

Aw yeah it's the worst being made to feel bad for not doing it, like your not helping them by not letting them cry. Literally my own family and in laws telling me to leave him cry 😢 even 1 min is too long for me let alone 5 or 10 etc bless him your right they are only little so a short time and just want cuddles and reassurance. So much old fashioned things people say without looking at newer studies saying oh crying helps their lungs or don't pick him up you'll spoil him, he's manipulating you... Well he can only cry to tell me he wants cuddles and I read that babies lack the brain power to manipulate so how can they 🥹

@Jenny yeah the studies show that babies stop crying cos they know it's pointless as nobody is coming so they preserve energy in case of attack (back to caveman days) They can't manipulate. They aren't capable.

@Natalie it's so sad for them 😭😭😭 it makes me think that so many people have trust issues or other issues today because their parents were told to let them cry it out 😢

@Jenny yeah that's what research says too. Anxiety, attachment issues etc.

@Natalie ha, they vary a lot... Can be 20 mins to 2hrs. Though if he does a short one the other is usually longer. I think they're not meant to have more than 3hrs total or it messes up night sleep? Usually his bed time is between half 8 to half 9pm but the other night he didn't settle til half 10 🙈

@Jenny i always aimed for the morning to be longer then a shorter afternoon one. I never capped naps as I find my daughter is pretty good at knowing what she needs then she'd sleep through the night. Half 10 is late! Do you change bedtime depending on when the last nap ends?

Yeah I think he prefers this too usually. He gets so mad if he accidentally wakes up before he means to! 🙈 No it's literally when he will settle. He'll show signs that he's tired, rubbing eyes etc and I'll start his routine usually about 7pm but he fights it. If he's really fighting he'll fuss until he falls asleep but if he lets himself he'll go sooner so it takes 1 to 2hrs usually to get him to sleep. Have just bought a different white noise machine to see if that helps and trying to get him to teach himself to self soothe more than relying on us to hold him or rock him as it was a struggle for everyone. Hoping in a few weeks he'll learn, he gets really frustrated at himself. He'll burrow into my face/neck then eventually cry out for a few seconds then relax onto a pillow next to me or leaning against me which is better than he was, it got to the point my husband would have to rock him in the pushchair every time he wanted to sleep at if he saw me he'd go crazy and then fight sleep even more when I...

...held him. Might be a phase he's going through also I guess.

@Jenny rubbing eyes is one of the last signs of tired and generally means they should already be asleep so when that happens I always only do the basics of bedtime routine so it doesn't take long. I'd definitely looking into a tweak of the schedule. My friends son had only slept through the night maybe 3 times in almost 18 months and when she got the timings right he started sleeping through within a few days. I used the comfort/soothing ladder method to stop feeding/rocking to sleep at a similar age and since then a hand on her back or a cuddle has been enough and asleep within 20 mins or so usually.

@Natalie Thanks, that's a good sign it worked for your friends son! I heard this too about rubbing eyes being last stages but he literally won't go to sleep unless he's past it 😭 if I try before her just tries to escape and/or play with everything. Maybe I'll try him again today/over the next week and try and get him sleeping before this stage again. It's so frustrating!! He wanted to sleep in today so he woke at 9am so that's already thrown off his nap times and probably pushed bedtime later again 🙈 I'll definitely go and look up ladder method you mention as not heard of that. Thankyou x

@Jenny i find the messing about is cos they are already too tired and struggling to switch off. I'd focus on the gaps between initially as opposed to the times on the clock to get a gauge of his wake windows (3-4 hours usually at this age) and then maybe start a schedule based on the clock more once you know the gaps needed. If he wakes up often through the night (every few hours) he will probably want shorter wake windows whilst he catches up on missed/broken sleep. With the 9am wake up I personally would have done a nap early afternoon (12.30 or so) and just done one nap today if it's a decent length (1.5-2 hours) then early bedtime.

@Natalie thanks 🥰 I will try this. He had about an hour about 11am and then a short one maybe 20 to 30 mins about half 2 🙈 Will try and early night also

@Jenny i definitely would. I'd be trying soon personally, no later than asleep by 7 with the timings today.

@Natalie he definitely wasn't having that. He eventually went at 9pm 🙄

@Jenny wow! How was he overnight? That is a big gap at his age. It's almost the same as my over 2 year old.

@Natalie I know 🙈 He wasn't too bad till about 3am then awake until 4am, then just a bit restless on and off till 9am. He's napping now again at just after 12. It's like impossible to get him to sleep until he's mega tired, don't know how to get him to go before he's *too* tired 🙄

@Jenny what steps are in the bedtime routine? How does he fall asleep (dummy, feed, cuddle, rocking)